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Battles That Fascinate Me
Paul O'Sullivan
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There have been a lot of military history lists on this site, the latest being this one: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/34083. It got me thinking about battles that aren't necessarily great or decisive, but those that fascinate us or speak to us on a deeper level. I've made a list of ten of these battles. Forgive the bias for musket combat, because it is my favorite form of warfare, and the lack of non-western battles. Sadly I'm mostly ignorant of Asian and African history prior to 1850.

Please feel free to add any battles that fascinate you.
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Posted On: 2008-08-24 18:18:02
Edited On: 2008-08-27 13:59:50

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1. Shiloh: April Glory [Average Rating:0.00 Unranked]
Paul O'Sullivan
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Shiloh 1862

If there is any battle that I know the most about it is certainly Shiloh, the bloody conflict that erupted in the tangled woods of Tennessee. In one sense the battle was like the assassination of JFK because it ended American innocence about the Civil War and forever changed the psychology of the conflict. The fact that most of the men involved were green only added to the tremendous horror and the battle became a favorite subject of songs, paintings, and even some poetry. The nature of the battle, where both sides often lost control and the fighting took on a life all its own makes this a subject I never tire of studying and pondering. My 2002 visit to the battlefield was an intense experience and the equivalent of a pilgrimage.


The Hornet's Nest:
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Posted On: 2008-08-24 13:58:10
Edited on: 2008-08-24 19:04:26
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Pete Belli
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0708
Also a fine subject for a wargame because both sides have the potential to seize the initiative.
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Jon W
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I have a growing interest in how warfare effects the societies that fought them over time, primarily in how the events are remembered. As such, your mentioning of Shiloh's impact on the arts certainly got my attention.

On another note, my "pilgrimage" was to Gettysburg in 2000 ...

Nice list.

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Paul O'Sullivan
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I have a growing interest in how warfare effects the societies that fought them over time, primarily in how the events are remembered. As such, your mentioning of Shiloh's impact on the arts certainly got my attention.

On another note, my "pilgrimage" was to Gettysburg in 2000 ...

Nice list.


Shiloh seemed to have a particular hold over the men involved because their first real experience of war was a battle that can easily be called one of the worst of the Civil War.

I'm almost fascinated in how war is remembered. Do you mind sharing some of your observations?
Mark Mahaffey
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060708
My gggfather fought in the Bloody Sixth, so this one hold special interest for me as well...
Paul O'Sullivan
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My gggfather fought in the Bloody Sixth, so this one hold special interest for me as well...


I was told three of my relatives fought in a Tennessee regiment at this fight and that two deserted, while another stayed and died at Chattanooga. I'm not sure about all this, but that is the family tradition.

Did your gggfather come out of the fight unscathed? If so that is a miracle considering how the 6th Mississippi was shredded.
Jon W
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gittes wrote:
... I'm almost fascinated in how war is remembered. Do you mind sharing some of your observations?


I am still at that diletante-like dabbling stage right now I'm afraid; poking through some of the literature that catches my eye. I haven't yet gained sufficient knowledge to draw too many conclusions (unlike when I read a book solely dedicated to a military campaign/battle, where I can usually offer some opinion or two afterwards). However, I can share some highlights of my search to date:

I first became interested in the subject of memory while reading "Son of the Morning Star" by Evan Connell. For those who unfamiliar with the book, it is about Custer's Last Stand, but it also deals with the lives of the principle participants and the effect of the Battle of the Little Bighorn on the US. What caught my imagination was his mentioning that paintings of the penultimate moment were quite popular and could be found in many bars across the land. Always depicted heroically of course. I found it interesting how a visual representation, from someone who was not there, can be the main frame of reference for an awful lot of people as they gazed at it over their beverage of choice.

So, off I went looking for books on the subject of how memory and warfare interact and found a few that dealt with a subject that I have always been interested in, namely WW1. I think that this war interests me as it represents in my mind an end of the old European order and the beginning of the modern world (I have since shifted this somewhat and now place the "beginning of the modern world!" around the mid-19th century; with WW1 being the exclamation point at the end of the sentence). Anyway, there are a number of interesting books on this subject too.

"Rites of Spring" by Modris Eksteins is something that I would recommend to anyone interested in WW1 and the first half of the 20th century. It is more of a social history in that he tries to describe how the peoples of the various nations, in particular Germans and British, viewed the reasons for fighting the war. He has a focus on the arts and the impact the war had on them and on social fads, viewpoints, etc that are described as being reactions to and rejection of the moral convictions that allowed for 4 years of slaughter to take place. Great stuff. Goes right up into WW2 as well. Quite readable.

"The Great War and Modern Memory" by Paul Fussell is another book that deals with the same subject, but is perhaps much more focused on the literature. This made it more difficult for me to read as I am, sadly, not well versed in fiction, poetry, etc. Again, it deals with the impact of the war on those immediately effected by it and who then proceeded to write/express their feelings. Considered a classic on the subject.

"Death So Noble: Memory, Meaning and the First World War" by Jonathan Vance is the last book in my collection. It's focus is on Canada and how the the memory of the war, as expressed through romantic images, cenotaphs, etc, was used by the establishment to help unite the nation (that was rather dislocated prior to the war). The idea that the nation was united on the slopes of Vimy Ridge is still a powerful notion today. He also discusses that although this was successful in uniting the English-speaking Anglo Saxons in the nation, the 3 other groups (French Canadians, natives and newer immigrants) were still left with a sense of isolation. He also mentions recent criticism of Fussell's book that notes that his sample of literature was too narrow and misses what was essentially a still viable conservative thought that existed in all nations after the war. Again, this is very readable.

So there you have it. My readings to date on the subject. No great conclusions to draw from it, but I am enjoying the journey so far. I suggest that you check them out on Amazon for much better reviews of them than I have provided (if interested of course). WARNING: These are not books that describe the WW1 in any great detail and probably require a good prior knowledge of the war to help make sense of what the author's are driving at.


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Paul O'Sullivan
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Take a look at these two books that also deal with how war is remembered: A Respectable Army and Embattled Courage.
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Jon W
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Thanks for the recommendations.

By coincidence, I was looking at "Embattled Courage" the other day, trying to choose between it and "The Bloody Crucible of Courage". I ended up going for the latter as I had Nosworthy's Napoleonic book which I enjoyed immensely.
Doug Iverson
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one of my favorite civil war era poetry

Shiloh by Herman Melville
A Requiem

Skimming lightly, wheeling still,
The swallows fly low
Over the fields in cloudy days,
The forest-field of Shiloh -
Over the field where April rain
Solaced the parched ones stretched in pain
Through the pause of night
That followed the Sunday fight
Around the church of Shiloh -
The church, so lone, the log-built one,
That echoed to many a parting groan
And natural prayer
Of dying foeman mingled there -
Foeman at morn, but friends at eve -
Fame or country least their care:
(What like a bullet can undeceive!)
But now they lie low,
While over them the swallows skim,
And all is hushed at Shiloh.
7
James Lowry
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In the Hills of Shiloh
(Shel Silverstein)

Have you seen Amanda Blaine in the hills of Shiloh
Wandering through the morning rain through the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her at her door, listening for the cannon's roar
And a man who went to war from the hills of Shiloh

Have you heard her mournful cries in the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her haunted eyes in the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her running down searching through the sleeping town
In her yellowed wedding gown in the hills of Shiloh

Have you seen her standing there in the hills of Shiloh
Wind a blowing through her hair in the hills of Shiloh
Listening for the sound of guns listening for the rolling drums
And a man who never comes to the hills of Shiloh

Have you heard Amanda sing in the hills of Shiloh
Whispering to her wedding ring in the hills of Shiloh
Hear her humming soft and low, poor Amanda doesn't know
'Twas ended forty years ago in the hills of Shiloh
Joseph Lamoureux
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050708
Rindis wrote:
In the Hills of Shiloh
(Shel Silverstein)

Have you seen Amanda Blaine in the hills of Shiloh
Wandering through the morning rain through the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her at her door, listening for the cannon's roar
And a man who went to war from the hills of Shiloh

Have you heard her mournful cries in the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her haunted eyes in the hills of Shiloh
Have you seen her running down searching through the sleeping town
In her yellowed wedding gown in the hills of Shiloh

Have you seen her standing there in the hills of Shiloh
Wind a blowing through her hair in the hills of Shiloh
Listening for the sound of guns listening for the rolling drums
And a man who never comes to the hills of Shiloh

Have you heard Amanda sing in the hills of Shiloh
Whispering to her wedding ring in the hills of Shiloh
Hear her humming soft and low, poor Amanda doesn't know
'Twas ended forty years ago in the hills of Shiloh


Bloody heartbreaking.
2. Atlantic Storm [Average Rating:6.52 Overall Rank:1102]
Paul O'Sullivan
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Battle of the Atlantic 1939-1945

All my life it seems I've known about u-boats, and when I started reading one of my favorite topics was the horrendous struggle for control of the North Atlantic. Nowadays Das Boot is one of favorite movies and Silent Hunter III has already robbed me of many valuable hours.


U-boat under attack:
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Posted On: 2008-08-24 14:00:04
Edited on: 2008-08-24 18:05:47
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Bill Lawson
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